Please use this thread for all blog posts relating to the 3rd quarter lit circle reading of Things Fall Apart. Posters in this group are: Richard, Dan, Megan, Rachelle, and Ashley.
Given your first impression of Okonkwo, were you surprised at his reaction to his wife during the Week of Peace. Obviously, having multiple wives and beating them was generally accepted in the Ino tribe, however Okonkwo is scolded by an elder and is told he has no reverance for the gods. I was a bit curious as to why this was included in the novel. Okonkwo is introduced as the ideal Ino male, so why lessen our sympathy for him by including an incident that calls his bluff, especially one that exposes him to his community?
I believe this is included to show that even the best of men, or to be politically correct, all people, have weaknesses. Okonkwo is still revered as the ideal Ino male. However, this enlightens us to the inconsistency of Okonkwo's action. Often, he lets his emotions get the best of him. This also shows that anger is an issue for him. Perhaps he has issues controlling his anger because of his troubled childhood and lack of resources his father left him.
I believe this is included to show that even the best of men, or to be politically correct, all people, have weaknesses. Okonkwo is still revered as the ideal Ino male. However, this enlightens us to the inconsistency of Okonkwo's action. Often, he lets his emotions get the best of him. This also shows that anger is an issue for him. Perhaps he has issues controlling his anger because of his troubled childhood and lack of resources his father left him.
I agree with Ashley's statement about how his anger may arise from his troubled childhood. I also think though that his anger is how he deals with his need to keep control. Growing up with a father who had no yams or titles, Okonkwo was determined to have some of his own. So with his hard earned yams, he feels the need to keep control over everything in his life, including his wives, so he does not lose what he has worked for. And because he does not want to show weakness in admitting his need for control, he lashes out in anger to prove his strength and greatness.
The thing I love the most about this novel is that it is not hard to find the most prominent theme - that of Okonkwo's fear of weakness. But this obviousness can also prove to be a hindrance in finding many of the other smaller themes within the book. What do you guys think that the title, Things Fall Apart, is foreshadowing? Do you think it is hinting to the failure of the Umuofian society, Okonkwo's household or everything that has structure within the story?
Okonkwo is obviously a man with lots of self pride. I believe his almost traumatic childhood, is the cause of his extreme behavior. I think he hated the way his dad was and ended up exactly opposite. I also think the same thing will happen to his kids. Honestly Megan, I was not surprised when he beat his wife because that is exactly what someone who is a control freak would do. And Richard, I think the title suggests that he will eventually loose all his control and greatness.
Before Ezinma is taken by the presitess Ekwefi tells her the story of the proud tortise. She mentions that the tortise gained the trust of the birds and later took the feast for himself. To punish him the birds disabled him from returning home, so he chose to jump from the sky to get there. Instead he shattered his shell: "His shell broke into pieces ... the medicine man stuck them all together. That is why the tortises shell is not smooth."
I'm thinking this a paralell to Things Fall Apart. There are discernable differences, I admit, however we haven't read the whole book yet.
That's definitely something to keep in mind as we keep progressing through the novel. I had not made that connection yet, so it's interesting to see how things will play out. On a different note, was anyone else utterly shocked that Okonkwo killed Ikemefuma? I know that he had to be killed, there was no alternative. However, an elder warned Okonkwo to stay away from the boy and have nothing to do with his death. It amazes me that after three years of living with Ikemefuma he could murder him with such ease, even if it was to avoid looking weak.
I defiantly agree with you Ashley! I had to read that part over again several times to be sure that I had read it correctly. I was completely shocked at its suddenness as well as how nonchalant the author wrote it. The book later talks about how Okonkwo is having a difficult time dealing with it and how it would be easier for him if he had just done it during harvest season. It's disturbing to me how they don't talk about the bigger issue (to us) of how he killed his own son practically.
To Ashley and Dan, I was also shocked when Okonkwo killed Ikenefuma, who was like a son to him. Out of the entire section of reading for this week, this was defenitely the part that stuck out in my mind. First off, I was shocked at how Okonkwo could come along and watch his son get killed. Second off, it suprised me how he acted like he did not even care after. Though he did care, he kept trying to convince himself that it was not that bad since he had killed people before. And third off, I was also kind of confused on why it was necessary to kill him. I know the Oracle told them that it was necessary, but this is very harsh and I do not see why they would kill an innocent boy.
I feel that the way that society is set up in the novel plays a larger role in the lives of the characters than our society plays a role in our lives today. And maybe that statement it invalid, but many of the actions that the main characters take are seemingly insensitive to me and mainly unjustified in my view of how our society it. For example, and probably the best one, Okonkwo's taking part in the murder of Ikemefuma. He was told that he didn't need to go and was advised not to go. This only points to his fear of weakness or even being viewed as weak. This fear could have only been put on him by his view of his father and the views that society had on his father. Other examples are Ikemefuma and Nwoye's altered behaviors due to their father's intense punishments.
This book will offer plenty to analyze (and plenty of outside sources) for your essay. If you haven't already done so, you might want to look up the Yeats poem that inspired the title (It's called the "Second Coming," I believe).
In Chapter 13, we see for the first time where the title, Things Fall Apart, really comes into play. Up until this point, I had guessed that something would happen in Okonkwo's life that would cause him to lose everything, and I was right. I did not expect it to be the way in which it happened though. I was shocked to find out that Okonkwo was banished from his fatherland for seven because his gun had exploded, accidentally killing a clansman. It was not his fault at all, but still, as rules of the tribe, he was forced to give up everything he had and move to his motherland. I think this could be the beginning of a new mindset for him. His circumstances may end up humbling him since he has to start over with nothing.
I do not think this will end up humbling him. He is downright livid at the situation, that he has to go live with his ancient uncle. When his uncle asks him multiple questions about why children are named certains things and why children are the father's, he knows not the answer. I think this shows just how naive Okonkwo really is. Okonwko thinks very highly of himself, yet shoots down criticism or advice as soon as it is out of the speaker's mouth. In truth, he does not even come close to knowing everything or owning many titles. I also think it demonstrates his unwillingness to change his ways. He is always stuck in the way of tradition. When one of the newer converts killed a python he attempted to convince the clan to kill him, seeing as it was against their unspoken rules. Okonkwo is also quick to abandom Nwoye as his son when he discovers he has visited the Christian missionaries. I believe Okonwko has an immense amount of personal growth and suffering to go through before he will allow himself to become humbled.
Now we are seeing Okonkwo's life as he knows it, falling apart. His banishment has been a shock to him and I believe he will learn somesort of lesson in his 7 years away from his tribe, and this will be the central theme of the book.
The quote Rachelle brought to LitCircles today was so significant. Like you mentioned, Ashley, the accident leading to Okonkwos exile is extremely symbolic. At the funeral (of the very man which embodied Ino tradition), Okonkwos gun explodes and kills the man's son. Peculiar, I'd say, that a gun, which I would connect with Western culture, killed him. It may be a stretch to say that after the death of strong tradition newer traditions such as Western culture has the ability to kill the passion for tradition in youth, whether accidental or not.
So, his family falls apart, his religion is weakened by the Christians, his titles have, for the most part been taken away, and Okonkwo is left dead hanging on a tree at the end of the book. His own friend can not even take him down or bury him because it is seen as a disgrace for a man to take his own life. Things have definitely fallen apart in the novel by the end of the book. Coming back to the question that was brought up in the discussion two weeks ago, I believe that the novel took so long to have events start falling apart because Achebe really wanted the reader to have a good understanding of how their society functions normally in order for the reader to easily see instances where it is beginning to crumble. Did you feel that this was the case? Did you feel that, nearing the end of the story, the progression seemed to have sped up rapidly just to hit and abrupt end? The ending up until the point where Achebe begins talking about someone writing a book was interesting and then I became a little confused.
To Richard's comment, I did feel like this was the case. Achebe took time to explain everything at the beginning. To explain the customs and lifestyle of the tribe in roder to give the audience a better background. It was not until about half way through that things actually started falling apart. But when they did, everything went downhill quickly. I think this is partially because Okonkwo did not try to make the best out of anything. He went through his entire time in exile as an angry person, regretting every single day. He let people get to him and weaken his beliefs. He love his dignity and strength and with this, his life as well.
The end has come! I really enjoyed the book and I think everyone else did too. Things really did fall apart at the end in the biggest sense of the word for Okonkwo. I think another title for the book could be When Worlds Collide. This seemed to be a major theme of the book, first by introducing the world of the Nigerians, then bringing in White men and showing the cause and effect.
I really enjoyed this book, however, I did not like the ending all that much. I thought suicide was a very anti-climatic way to end the novel. Overall, I liked how straightforward the novel was. We did not have to do any deciphering of dialogue or anything along those lines.
21 comments:
Given your first impression of Okonkwo, were you surprised at his reaction to his wife during the Week of Peace. Obviously, having multiple wives and beating them was generally accepted in the Ino tribe, however Okonkwo is scolded by an elder and is told he has no reverance for the gods. I was a bit curious as to why this was included in the novel. Okonkwo is introduced as the ideal Ino male, so why lessen our sympathy for him by including an incident that calls his bluff, especially one that exposes him to his community?
I believe this is included to show that even the best of men, or to be politically correct, all people, have weaknesses. Okonkwo is still revered as the ideal Ino male. However, this enlightens us to the inconsistency of Okonkwo's action. Often, he lets his emotions get the best of him. This also shows that anger is an issue for him. Perhaps he has issues controlling his anger because of his troubled childhood and lack of resources his father left him.
I believe this is included to show that even the best of men, or to be politically correct, all people, have weaknesses. Okonkwo is still revered as the ideal Ino male. However, this enlightens us to the inconsistency of Okonkwo's action. Often, he lets his emotions get the best of him. This also shows that anger is an issue for him. Perhaps he has issues controlling his anger because of his troubled childhood and lack of resources his father left him.
I agree with Ashley's statement about how his anger may arise from his troubled childhood. I also think though that his anger is how he deals with his need to keep control. Growing up with a father who had no yams or titles, Okonkwo was determined to have some of his own. So with his hard earned yams, he feels the need to keep control over everything in his life, including his wives, so he does not lose what he has worked for. And because he does not want to show weakness in admitting his need for control, he lashes out in anger to prove his strength and greatness.
The thing I love the most about this novel is that it is not hard to find the most prominent theme - that of Okonkwo's fear of weakness. But this obviousness can also prove to be a hindrance in finding many of the other smaller themes within the book. What do you guys think that the title, Things Fall Apart, is foreshadowing? Do you think it is hinting to the failure of the Umuofian society, Okonkwo's household or everything that has structure within the story?
Okonkwo is obviously a man with lots of self pride. I believe his almost traumatic childhood, is the cause of his extreme behavior. I think he hated the way his dad was and ended up exactly opposite. I also think the same thing will happen to his kids. Honestly Megan, I was not surprised when he beat his wife because that is exactly what someone who is a control freak would do. And Richard, I think the title suggests that he will eventually loose all his control and greatness.
Before Ezinma is taken by the presitess Ekwefi tells her the story of the proud tortise. She mentions that the tortise gained the trust of the birds and later took the feast for himself. To punish him the birds disabled him from returning home, so he chose to jump from the sky to get there. Instead he shattered his shell: "His shell broke into pieces ... the medicine man stuck them all together. That is why the tortises shell is not smooth."
I'm thinking this a paralell to Things Fall Apart. There are discernable differences, I admit, however we haven't read the whole book yet.
That's definitely something to keep in mind as we keep progressing through the novel. I had not made that connection yet, so it's interesting to see how things will play out. On a different note, was anyone else utterly shocked that Okonkwo killed Ikemefuma? I know that he had to be killed, there was no alternative. However, an elder warned Okonkwo to stay away from the boy and have nothing to do with his death. It amazes me that after three years of living with Ikemefuma he could murder him with such ease, even if it was to avoid looking weak.
I defiantly agree with you Ashley! I had to read that part over again several times to be sure that I had read it correctly. I was completely shocked at its suddenness as well as how nonchalant the author wrote it. The book later talks about how Okonkwo is having a difficult time dealing with it and how it would be easier for him if he had just done it during harvest season. It's disturbing to me how they don't talk about the bigger issue (to us) of how he killed his own son practically.
To Ashley and Dan, I was also shocked when Okonkwo killed Ikenefuma, who was like a son to him. Out of the entire section of reading for this week, this was defenitely the part that stuck out in my mind. First off, I was shocked at how Okonkwo could come along and watch his son get killed. Second off, it suprised me how he acted like he did not even care after. Though he did care, he kept trying to convince himself that it was not that bad since he had killed people before. And third off, I was also kind of confused on why it was necessary to kill him. I know the Oracle told them that it was necessary, but this is very harsh and I do not see why they would kill an innocent boy.
I feel that the way that society is set up in the novel plays a larger role in the lives of the characters than our society plays a role in our lives today. And maybe that statement it invalid, but many of the actions that the main characters take are seemingly insensitive to me and mainly unjustified in my view of how our society it. For example, and probably the best one, Okonkwo's taking part in the murder of Ikemefuma. He was told that he didn't need to go and was advised not to go. This only points to his fear of weakness or even being viewed as weak. This fear could have only been put on him by his view of his father and the views that society had on his father. Other examples are Ikemefuma and Nwoye's altered behaviors due to their father's intense punishments.
**** the second sentence is supposed to end with "how our society views it" not "how our society it". I was typing fast and never checked over, sorry!
This book will offer plenty to analyze (and plenty of outside sources) for your essay. If you haven't already done so, you might want to look up the Yeats poem that inspired the title (It's called the "Second Coming," I believe).
In Chapter 13, we see for the first time where the title, Things Fall Apart, really comes into play. Up until this point, I had guessed that something would happen in Okonkwo's life that would cause him to lose everything, and I was right. I did not expect it to be the way in which it happened though. I was shocked to find out that Okonkwo was banished from his fatherland for seven because his gun had exploded, accidentally killing a clansman. It was not his fault at all, but still, as rules of the tribe, he was forced to give up everything he had and move to his motherland. I think this could be the beginning of a new mindset for him. His circumstances may end up humbling him since he has to start over with nothing.
I do not think this will end up humbling him. He is downright livid at the situation, that he has to go live with his ancient uncle. When his uncle asks him multiple questions about why children are named certains things and why children are the father's, he knows not the answer. I think this shows just how naive Okonkwo really is. Okonwko thinks very highly of himself, yet shoots down criticism or advice as soon as it is out of the speaker's mouth. In truth, he does not even come close to knowing everything or owning many titles.
I also think it demonstrates his unwillingness to change his ways. He is always stuck in the way of tradition. When one of the newer converts killed a python he attempted to convince the clan to kill him, seeing as it was against their unspoken rules. Okonkwo is also quick to abandom Nwoye as his son when he discovers he has visited the Christian missionaries. I believe Okonwko has an immense amount of personal growth and suffering to go through before he will allow himself to become humbled.
Now we are seeing Okonkwo's life as he knows it, falling apart. His banishment has been a shock to him and I believe he will learn somesort of lesson in his 7 years away from his tribe, and this will be the central theme of the book.
The quote Rachelle brought to LitCircles today was so significant. Like you mentioned, Ashley, the accident leading to Okonkwos exile is extremely symbolic. At the funeral (of the very man which embodied Ino tradition), Okonkwos gun explodes and kills the man's son. Peculiar, I'd say, that a gun, which I would connect with Western culture, killed him. It may be a stretch to say that after the death of strong tradition newer traditions such as Western culture has the ability to kill the passion for tradition in youth, whether accidental or not.
So, his family falls apart, his religion is weakened by the Christians, his titles have, for the most part been taken away, and Okonkwo is left dead hanging on a tree at the end of the book. His own friend can not even take him down or bury him because it is seen as a disgrace for a man to take his own life. Things have definitely fallen apart in the novel by the end of the book. Coming back to the question that was brought up in the discussion two weeks ago, I believe that the novel took so long to have events start falling apart because Achebe really wanted the reader to have a good understanding of how their society functions normally in order for the reader to easily see instances where it is beginning to crumble. Did you feel that this was the case? Did you feel that, nearing the end of the story, the progression seemed to have sped up rapidly just to hit and abrupt end? The ending up until the point where Achebe begins talking about someone writing a book was interesting and then I became a little confused.
To Richard's comment, I did feel like this was the case. Achebe took time to explain everything at the beginning. To explain the customs and lifestyle of the tribe in roder to give the audience a better background. It was not until about half way through that things actually started falling apart. But when they did, everything went downhill quickly. I think this is partially because Okonkwo did not try to make the best out of anything. He went through his entire time in exile as an angry person, regretting every single day. He let people get to him and weaken his beliefs. He love his dignity and strength and with this, his life as well.
The end has come! I really enjoyed the book and I think everyone else did too. Things really did fall apart at the end in the biggest sense of the word for Okonkwo. I think another title for the book could be When Worlds Collide. This seemed to be a major theme of the book, first by introducing the world of the Nigerians, then bringing in White men and showing the cause and effect.
I really enjoyed this book, however, I did not like the ending all that much. I thought suicide was a very anti-climatic way to end the novel. Overall, I liked how straightforward the novel was. We did not have to do any deciphering of dialogue or anything along those lines.
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