Please use this thread for all blog posts relating to the 3rd quarter lit circle reading of Catch-22. Posters in this group are: Connor, Andrew, Keenan, Sam, and Lisa.
Most of us have heard the phrase Catch-22 at one point or another and understand it's general meaning. But very few of us have actually read the novel and understand where it came from and how it was introduced into American jargon. As a result, reading this book while already knowing the iconic phrase that comes from it is interesting as it's always in the back of your head prompting different questions and new thoughts other than what you might normally have. It doesn't really take away from the reading it mainly just changes it. For example, before I started reading I had no idea that the phrase came from a book that was set during World War II. This setting alone brings up several questions such as why did this time period influence the author's creation of the paradox in Catch-22. All in all, it's just making for unique reading experience and I'm curious to see where the book is heading and what themes the author will introduce.
I'm a big fan of Dunbar's philosophy: the length of life is solely a matter of perception, and tedious situations are usually perceived to last longer than ones that excite us, therefore one should subject themselves to boring situations in order to extend their life span. Sounds about right to me.
Sam I would have to disagree. What would be the point of living life if one spent their entire time bored? I think that if I did that I would probably end my life short anyway. Also, time flows at a constant speed therefore time only appears to fly by in retrospect, time at the present never speeds up or slows down.
Kudos to Connor for bringing some physics in there. I might go kind of in the middle on this one. I agree with Sam in that, while it does seem like a somewhat accurate philosophy in that time does indeed feel slower during boring and tedious activities and faster during exciting ones, it does seem a plausible way to create the illusion of a longer life. However, I agree with Connor in that a life filled with self-induced boredom is a very strange life to live and I for one wouldn't want to live it. I will point out though that when asked the very question of why he would choose such a life, Dunbar replies with "what else is there?" Now that of course brings up very complex and un-answerable questions such as what happens after death and what is our purpose in this life but it makes the point that what a "good" life is, depends on the person. For Dunbar, it's clearly a longer life. For Connor and I, I think it would be a worthwhile and meaningful one. Food for thought.
Life is about having something to chew on! Meaning, and length essentially represent the same thing: escape from the idea of mortality. I think it's safe to say that with death acting as such a powerful force in Dunbar's environment, the idea of meaning in action is lost on him, so he chooses length.
In the beginning of the book Yossarian and Dunbar were in the hospital. Towards the end of the first chapter they decided to leave the hospital because of the discomfort that a new patient causes. If Dunbar really lived by the philosophy we had been discussing shouldn't he have stayed in the hospital? I guess what I am trying to ask is am I the only one who sees this as a contradiction?
Yossarian makes it back to the hospital once again. He tries to convince his superiors that he's crazy, once again. As a result, he gets into a bit of trouble, once again. But wait! This time he gets declared insane and is ordered to be sent home. False. As a result of his trouble making someone else is thought to be him and the wrong man is sent home. Yossarian just can't catch a break and his real insanity along with his pleas for insanity so that he can go home grow in volume and strangeness. It seems that Yossarian is destined to be stuck in the war and to never go home, a sad but interesting possible outcome for the book. I've also noticed that reading the book and how it bounces around is like figuring out a puzzle. It fits nicely with all the insanity and I feel like its meant to give the reader some sort of clue to what's going to happen but I can't quite pick up on it yet. We shall see.
Is it dangerous to be right when the government is wrong? Throughout the book, authorities keep asking Yossarian to go along with their schemes for carrying out the war. The problem is that Yossarian believes that he needs to oppose the war for justifying reasons and protests to the point where his squadron experiences chaos which brings him into danger. Obviously, he put himself in a dangerous situation, but is it worth it??
Lisa, I believe that it is always dangerous to oppose the government. Even in the US the government can detain you forever if they suspect you are a terrorist. The only reason that Yossarian would have to protest would be to keep his sanity and individuality, yet Yossarian is lacking so much sanity already that I believe his actions were definitely not worth the consequences.
Intriguing thought, Yossarian is narrating for most of the novel. Keeping that in mind, we also clearly see and feel that Yossarian is pretty darn crazy. So, my point is, if a crazy person is telling the story, how do we know what's fact and what's fiction? And how do we know what's really crazy and what's Yossarian's crazy interpretation of it? While the reader can make informed assumptions, along with trusting the author not to have written a truly crazy and random novel, it still brings me at least to wonder what else there is to this gripping story that we might be missing.
I agree Odle, that Yossarian's insanity does tend to make the novel difficult already. The non-linear storyline really throws me off. However, when discussing his credibility as a narrator, I think he is being very honest. There are many parts that are a symptom of the craziness, such as the flies in the eyes awhile back, but I believe that all the plausible events are true. The author is attempting to show the pure insanity of war, which leads me to believe that Yossarian doesn't need to lie on account of his insanity, because the truth is just as horrific.
11 comments:
Most of us have heard the phrase Catch-22 at one point or another and understand it's general meaning. But very few of us have actually read the novel and understand where it came from and how it was introduced into American jargon. As a result, reading this book while already knowing the iconic phrase that comes from it is interesting as it's always in the back of your head prompting different questions and new thoughts other than what you might normally have. It doesn't really take away from the reading it mainly just changes it. For example, before I started reading I had no idea that the phrase came from a book that was set during World War II. This setting alone brings up several questions such as why did this time period influence the author's creation of the paradox in Catch-22. All in all, it's just making for unique reading experience and I'm curious to see where the book is heading and what themes the author will introduce.
I'm a big fan of Dunbar's philosophy: the length of life is solely a matter of perception, and tedious situations are usually perceived to last longer than ones that excite us, therefore one should subject themselves to boring situations in order to extend their life span. Sounds about right to me.
Sam I would have to disagree. What would be the point of living life if one spent their entire time bored? I think that if I did that I would probably end my life short anyway. Also, time flows at a constant speed therefore time only appears to fly by in retrospect, time at the present never speeds up or slows down.
Kudos to Connor for bringing some physics in there. I might go kind of in the middle on this one. I agree with Sam in that, while it does seem like a somewhat accurate philosophy in that time does indeed feel slower during boring and tedious activities and faster during exciting ones, it does seem a plausible way to create the illusion of a longer life. However, I agree with Connor in that a life filled with self-induced boredom is a very strange life to live and I for one wouldn't want to live it. I will point out though that when asked the very question of why he would choose such a life, Dunbar replies with "what else is there?" Now that of course brings up very complex and un-answerable questions such as what happens after death and what is our purpose in this life but it makes the point that what a "good" life is, depends on the person. For Dunbar, it's clearly a longer life. For Connor and I, I think it would be a worthwhile and meaningful one. Food for thought.
Life is about having something to chew on! Meaning, and length essentially represent the same thing: escape from the idea of mortality. I think it's safe to say that with death acting as such a powerful force in Dunbar's environment, the idea of meaning in action is lost on him, so he chooses length.
In the beginning of the book Yossarian and Dunbar were in the hospital. Towards the end of the first chapter they decided to leave the hospital because of the discomfort that a new patient causes. If Dunbar really lived by the philosophy we had been discussing shouldn't he have stayed in the hospital? I guess what I am trying to ask is am I the only one who sees this as a contradiction?
Yossarian makes it back to the hospital once again. He tries to convince his superiors that he's crazy, once again. As a result, he gets into a bit of trouble, once again. But wait! This time he gets declared insane and is ordered to be sent home. False. As a result of his trouble making someone else is thought to be him and the wrong man is sent home. Yossarian just can't catch a break and his real insanity along with his pleas for insanity so that he can go home grow in volume and strangeness. It seems that Yossarian is destined to be stuck in the war and to never go home, a sad but interesting possible outcome for the book. I've also noticed that reading the book and how it bounces around is like figuring out a puzzle. It fits nicely with all the insanity and I feel like its meant to give the reader some sort of clue to what's going to happen but I can't quite pick up on it yet. We shall see.
Is it dangerous to be right when the government is wrong? Throughout the book, authorities keep asking Yossarian to go along with their schemes for carrying out the war. The problem is that Yossarian believes that he needs to oppose the war for justifying reasons and protests to the point where his squadron experiences chaos which brings him into danger. Obviously, he put himself in a dangerous situation, but is it worth it??
Lisa, I believe that it is always dangerous to oppose the government. Even in the US the government can detain you forever if they suspect you are a terrorist. The only reason that Yossarian would have to protest would be to keep his sanity and individuality, yet Yossarian is lacking so much sanity already that I believe his actions were definitely not worth the consequences.
Intriguing thought, Yossarian is narrating for most of the novel. Keeping that in mind, we also clearly see and feel that Yossarian is pretty darn crazy. So, my point is, if a crazy person is telling the story, how do we know what's fact and what's fiction? And how do we know what's really crazy and what's Yossarian's crazy interpretation of it? While the reader can make informed assumptions, along with trusting the author not to have written a truly crazy and random novel, it still brings me at least to wonder what else there is to this gripping story that we might be missing.
I agree Odle, that Yossarian's insanity does tend to make the novel difficult already. The non-linear storyline really throws me off. However, when discussing his credibility as a narrator, I think he is being very honest. There are many parts that are a symptom of the craziness, such as the flies in the eyes awhile back, but I believe that all the plausible events are true. The author is attempting to show the pure insanity of war, which leads me to believe that Yossarian doesn't need to lie on account of his insanity, because the truth is just as horrific.
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