Please complete all blog posts pertaining to 1984 in the comments section of this thread. Blog posts are assigned weekly for the duration of the Lit Circle, and are due by 10pm on Thursday nights.
Students posting in this thread will be: Keenan, Sam, Andrew, Connor, Danielle, Megan & Josh
Happy Reading!
25 comments:
Hello, readers of 1984! I have a question for you. If you slipped into Oceania at this very moment (meaning you keep your mentality and history)how do you think you would react?
Sorry Sam, but I am going to stray from your question. I came here with a topic in mind, so I cannot indulge in your question just yet. I have reached a point in the book that inspired a bit of an idea, and I don't want to let it get away.I wanted to make a slight prediction about Big Brother. I don't believe he exists. The society framework seems suspiciously persistent in assuring an overbearing force that somehow still stays behind the scene. Meanwhile, every citizen is kept in the dark on the activities of all the other people, even in the next cubicle. Theoretically, they could all be creating a Big Brother-esque force that seems to watch the entire society, while in truth nothing that strong exists. The collective ignorance of the people form a controlling demonic force. The people seem dominated and over controlled, but it seems very possible that their oppression could be simply the crueler aspects of humanity, collecting together from every member of the society, and being given a voice.
In response to Samuel's question, if I'm being honest, I'd have to say that I would be quite frightened. After being in our own world and modern country where, despite a few rules and social norms we must meet, nearly all of our decisions are our own and we have freedom, it would be scary to be placed in a world that is so far the opposite way. To lose one's individuality, freedom, and simple ability of rational thought in a heart-beat sounds unbearable. After the initial shock of it and keeping my head down, I don't think I could continue living like that and would begin to seek out the brotherhood.
Rebellion!
Interesting thoughts Keenan, but it leaves me wondering how the idea of Big Brother came about in the first place though.
I had a question about the emotions within the novel. Now, maybe it's just me, but it seems to be that the people of Oceania are very much so extremists when it comes to both their emotions and beliefs. On page 16, Winston is describing his feelings toward the dark haired girl from the fiction section and it's all so intense and angry, it almost seems over the top. Has anyone else noticed this?
Danielle, I noticed that too- the outburst of emotion that seemingly comes from nowhere. Winston even admits that he does not know where his anger comes from,he just knows that it has been brought up, without meaning, by the society. And actually what helped me to better understand the setup of the society was reading the Apendix. It talks about how the language is used achieve absolute obedience and make heretical thoughts neaerly impossible. I highly recommend that you guys read it, it explains exactly how the state has been able to control people's minds.
Language has a great affect on Oceania. The official language of the country is Newspeak, though unofficially Oldspeak (English) is used. So, in response to Sam's question, I would be utterly confused and isolated. Reason being that the emotions and passions evoked by my individuality would most likely be inexpressible in Newspeak. The variety of ideas and feelings that we are encouraged to have in our society are scorned in Oceania. Actually.. they're not even allowed. That's why there's mind police. That's why there is (or, as Andrew pointed out, isn't) Big brother.
Keenan, I really like your thoughts on Big Brother. To create an imaginary being that would eventually become the popular and ideal head of a changing world would be an unbelievably wise move. He could never go wrong, for the public makes him, or rather, he makes the public. Your thoughts remind me of something the legendary Samuel Crosby once mentioned to me. Imagine a loner who creates an imaginary friend and tells all these stories to people about how this friend is such a great guy. The popularity of the imaginary friend takes off; other people join in the story telling just to say they know this insanely popular guy, even though nobody has seen him. The imaginary friend becomes the epiphany of cool and everyone wants to be like him, or at least be like what they hear about him. Ingenious idea if you ask me.
I am here, on this blog, to speak about doublethink-- No, I'm not. Isn't that an interesting process? To think that because Oceania depends so thoroughly on contradictions, so must all its citizens. A requirement so stoic that the mind of an 'Oceanic' is constantly overturning and rejecting its own thoughts. What sense self is left when one barely controls their own mind? I suppose it all goes back to Ingsoc: If with ignorance there is no mind, and without mind, there is no individuality, and without individuality there is unity, and unity is strength, then ignorance is strength. No it's not.
I found the encounter with the old man in the pub (page 78) incredibly interesting. Here's this guy who has lived through both the old and new ways of living and all he cares about are his bladder and feet. This encounter made me like Winston's character all the more because he is so curious, he wants to know what life was like. I'm anxious to see if he finds anyone within the course of the novel who shares his inquisitive thoughts, I feel like he's always going to stand alone.
To add on to Sam's (or NOT Sam's) comment, not only do contradictions rule Oceania's society, persay, but also the individuals. Even Winston, who struggles to remain apart from the party becomes part of his society's doublethink. For example, his relationship with Julia. Winston finds Julia attractive, not because of her inner beauty or any ideal moral she cherishes, but because she is also against the party. Winston only 'loves' Julia because they share one interest - it's superficial. Interestingly enough, so is Oceania. Everything is fine on the outside however, once you get down into it there is no genuine substance. Julia and Winston have become a prime example of that which they rebel against. Doublethink.
This is about the role of Julia in the book...I feel that she is going to serve a purpose other than simply being Winston's love interest.Because otherwise, her drastic views and rebelion against the party do not help develop the purpose of the novel.
Samuel Crosby,
That was some nice philosophy in your satire laced yet very true post. I had never connected doublethink to the whole “Ignorance is Strength” ideal of the Party before reading your comment. I must agree with you on this point, that doublethink is simply another ploy of Big Brother to analyze and control the masses. I mean Newspeak in and of itself is a form of doublethink, and the ideals of Big Brother are certainly doublethink meant to “brainwash” the people.
I would like to comment on some of the imagery Orwell employed near the end of part two of his novel. Vincent had just woken up from what felt like an unusually long nap, to find a clear sky, and a world washed clean with rain. He describes how outside his window his neighbor, a "beautiful" prole, sings a love song that has outlived a song of hate. I can't help but feel that these details are meant to represent the understanding and hope Goldstein's book has given Vincent: A washed world and clear sky symbolizing the lifting of corruption and ignorance, and the conquering love song representing the inevitable victory of humanity.
Perhaps it will be this hinted hope that will carry Vincent through his dawning strife.
As I read, I found myself wondering how long Charrington had been plotting against Wilson. Did he know from the moment he walked in who he was and his views on the Party? Or was Wilson's appearance there mere chance? I must admit, I was incredibly surprised when it turned out that there was a telescreen in the room and Charrington had been the one to capture both Julia and Winston in their thoughtcrimes. Any thoughts on Charrington as their betrayer?
Sam to answer your question from earlier I would have to say that I would probably be one of the first people to vaporized. I have never tried to hide my feelings, I don't like it when people hide their feelings from me. Because I have never tried to hide my feelings I would not be able to hide the discontent that I would possess from living in a society that does not allow me to have my own thoughts. I would not be able to fool the thought police for even a minute.
Hmmm. I do believe our two groups are at different reading intervals. I have no comment on Charrington because I have not reached that point yet. I do, however, have many thoughts on the peaceful war that the world is enduring. Upon reading the slogans at the beginning, I never imagined that "War is Peace" could come out to be true in any way. I took it for just political banter meant to confuse the people. However, that marvelous description of the world in a perfect description convinced me otherwise. Three massive countries, constantly at war with each other, even though there is no hope of gaining any significant ground. It is frequently noted that war pulled the United States out of a depression, and that is was needed. In this book, war is used for good again, this time seemeingly intentionally. The docile war, which can never be won or lost, holds the entire structure of the world in place. War has ironically saved lives, by taking the aggression that would normally kill scores of people and translating it into a less deadly outlet. The world is frozen in a pre-apocalyptic era: neither fully at war or fully at peace. Don't get me wrong, the society is cruel to the individual. But in the perspective of the entire world, Orwell conjured a very efficient way to keep the world in some sort of peace.
So, Winston from this point on shall be known as either Vincent or Wilson. I thoroughly enjoyed the quote about how the past survives “only in written records and in human memories. The past is whatever the records and the memories agree upon. And since the Party is in full control of all records, and in equally full control of the minds of its members, it follows that the past is whatever the Party chooses to make it” (176). I don’t know why, but something about that quote just stuck out to me. I guess because it is so true. The past is what we as humans personally know and what we can learn from records. If something or someone was to hinder either of those things, we would not know the whole story, only part of it would be known to us. Because the Party can alter both the written records and the minds of the Party members, the whole story is simply what they say it is.
Sorry I forgot to post last week fellow group members. We had finals for GAC's on Thursday night and in all the craziness I forgot to post them. So with that in mind, and the hopes that Mrs. Linneman will be awesome and maybe give me partial credit, I'd like to first leave my post from last week. I'd like to comment on an instance where Winston and Julia are lying in bed together and they see a rat. Winston is extremely frightened of it, to the point that Julia is legitimately concerned for him and his level of panic. Winston goes on to think of a nightmare he used to frequently have where he is cornered at a wall. He realizes it might have been by a rat this whole time. Because Orwell made such a big deal out of it and even brought in a dream (dreams seem to be huge in literature) I think it must be something important. Maybe the rat is representative of something like Big Brother and it's a fear he must overcome and conquer, or perhaps it's more along the lines of the proles, how they're dirty and low as well and yet Winston feels he needs them anyway. I shall have to see.
For this week, I'd like to comment on Winston's diary. He pours so much into it and that makes me think of a few very important things. One is that this diary holds a lot. His feelings, his passions, his desires, it's all in there, and it's also all illegal. In my opinion he's very risky with his diary and the fact that it could get him in more trouble than anything else is frightening. More importantly and more interestingly however, I feel like his diary was vital in his ability to have rebellious thoughts and think differently than the rest of the population in Oceania. It was a place for him to cultivate his real thoughts and feelings, almost like a second mind. Oceania does its best to condition everyone to think certain things certain ways, but the diary was an escape from that. So basically, I was just surprised at how vital a role it appears to have played.
Reading chapters 5-10 of part 2,I couldn't help but feel as if this was the major turning point in the story. Yes, Winston is switching allegiances as his now lies with the Brotherhood, but I also think that his idea that staying human is the only real way to rebel against the party is very significant. I think that Winston now sees the value of human life in a different way, and this gives him hope for the future, and subsequently Winston pledges to serve the Brotherhood.
I have come to believe that they were right to brainwash Winston. His heresy was an illness, one which was causing him to endanger both himself and his society. If the love of Big Brother means comfort, than the Love of Big Brother is sanity.
I believe that having somewhere to belong, for Winston is going to make a different in his outlook on life as we can already see that his behavior is changing.
I'd like to comment on Keenan's very first prediction and agree with it. I think that Big Brother did not, in fact, exist and was merely an idea that the rulers of Oceania used to control it's citizens. I'll go even further and say that there never was any one single person who ruled Oceania and had the title of Big Brother. He was created with a purpose right from the start and judging how the novel played out he served his purpose well. I also liked the last four words of the novel a lot, they were simple but said a lot. "He loved Big Brother" something you never thought Winston would say but ended up saying anyway.
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